Dear all and Brither Naamdhari Sikh( username here on spn)
Iam strating this thread with reluctance as it should be my Naamdhari brother who should have done for the reason best best known to him he never didi it even on my two request
My Naamdhari Fellow have some complains with the main stream sikh ( also called Shabad guru/singh sabha by Naamdhari ) these are the few I can get fronm the 35 posts that he has posted here on forum . Resr he can add further and all can contribute to it
1) According to the information given by naamdhari sikh some people of there community have faced hate and physical abuse at hands of other main stream sikh .
Quote:
Our children, women and youth are being beaten, insulted and abused. Our Guru is abused and threats are being levelled towards Him. It is only by His Command that we are not retaliating. We are taught not to attack anyone, least of all our fellow Gurubhais and Bhens. We will refrain from escalating this violence. So I have turned to the net to see if there are any people of wisdom left within the Sikh community.
Written by Naamdhari Sikh
my view : Personally I have never seen it happening as first person but I still can imagine this happening where there are Radical Sikhs who are hate filled for everybody non sikhs BUT THEY DONT REPRESENT THE MAJORITY SIKH COMMUNITY AND WHAT THEY DO IS WRONG AND I KNOW MAJORITY WILL AGREE WITH ME . but this does not make all sikhs anti NAAMDHARI by default as my brither Naa dhari here thinks so this is limitation of his expereinces . personally I have naamdhari class mates in professional college an d nothin of such kind ever proped in my mind
And you message alos gives A warning tha the reason you are not retaliating is your guru,s command is that a warning or just the same violience that you claim to face from others?
2) Quote:
Under the Holy umbrella of the Aadh Sri Guru Granth Sahib you are subtly being taught to hate, you are being taught that anyone who doesn't believe the Holy Granth to be 'alive and living' is insulting the Gurujis' Granth Sahib.
( written by Naamdhari)
My view : This is very cheap little thinking or view tha you have of main stream sikh and not reality and it shows the same behaviour ou complian about that you face
ME HOLIER THAN YOU . If you r revered Staguru is teaching you Gurbani than this does not make it best interpretation and the only interpretation for all those who don’t bekieve in Your Satguru
Again all Sikhs are not taught about hate as you presume as SIKH family now number in crores and there bound to variation in character of people also diversity in people even in main stream There are many sadhus in main stream and many sikh organisation LIKE TAKSAL, Sant Sampradas and many MAHA Purush in past and present that have taught message of love and peace and not HATE AS YOU Persume for all the Sikhs
So please be open to others and for a change consider a possibility of you also being wrong somewhere as just blessing of your Satguru does not make you infallible atleast in your observations and notions
3) Quote:
Just as anyone who doesn't support Khalistan is not a Sikh?
Can there be no other perspective?
written by NaamDhari Sikh
My View:
this is very Minority view you are talking about I don’t believe in it and many others I have interacted in past three years in online interaction also doesnot believe in such radicle views
Yes there can be many other prepective and already they exist also as part of main sikh stream
4) Quote:
All of the views I have expressed on these forums are views on Sikhi that have been untarnished by the Singh Sabha movement, whose thinking was and is greatly influenced by Western European thought.
.. And first there was the WORD is a passage out of Biblical text.
To believe that your Guru is not to be distinguished different from God is an ancient Sanatan concept that comes down to us from time immemorial. The concept of Karam and 840,000 lives the soul has to migrate through was not invented by Guru Nanak Devji. Recitation of Naam was not invented by Guru Nanak Devji. These are concepts that were taught by God in the oldest language known to Mankind in the OLDEST scriptures known to mankind.
Guru Nanak Devji came to this Earth in this Kalyug age (again a Vedic concept) to refresh Mankind's memory about it's origins and truth of Dharam. That Dharam which exists since the dawn of creation. The Dharam that has it's origins in the Land we call Bharat.
Have shame when you speak of this holy land with venom in your minds. Bow your heads in honour when you speak of this land.
if any one expresses any opinion that even slightly challenges your views you come out with all your guns blazing.
written by NAAMDHARI SIKH.
My View :
In my view you also need to do some homework here . Your view of having living Guru and that also in continuity with Tenth Guru Sahibans Guru Gobind Singh ji finds no takers in any sikh groups whether they are Singh Sabha or anti Singh sabha
Many groups I would like to mention here have very independent philosophy but are all one on this issue of shabad guru with there independent source and belief
( AKALI NAIHANG SINGH BUDAADAL
AKALI NIHUNG SINGH TARUNA DAL,
NIRMALA SAMPRADHA
UDHASI SAMPRADA
SANT SAMAJ
SEWA PANTHI SAMPRADA
DAMDAMI TAKSAL
All these sampradas have many views diffrent from SINGH SABHA and even there own rehats which vary significantly BUT ALL ARE ONE ON THE ISSUE OF SAHAB GURU WITH NO LIVING GURU and all these claim there inception itself from time of SRI GURU GOBIND SINGH JI MAHARAJ and their cliam is independent of each other soYOUR CLAIM OF SINGH SABHA BRAINWASHED BY BRITISH seems Childish and even can be taken as your Brainwashing done on purpose .
ALL the conceptts you are trying to mention above about Guru parmeshwar , continuity with snatan dharm is well taught in main stream as well so don’t take p=ride in your exclusive source of knowledge as AKAL PURAKH like to have mercy on all including us even if you think us wrong!
5)Now what Amounts to be offending when talking about SATGURU
In my view :
any body calling his satuguru and bestower of enlightment is not offending even if it is Satguru of Naamdhari
Any body who wants to use verse p=artly or wholly of Sri guru granth sahib for their spirtual expansion even if it means interp=reting it with guidance of there own guru does not seems to offend me
BUT any body claiming that their guru a are the SATGUR for whole humanity ( which atleast 20 such gurus I can count on fingers )then its their heasdache to convince 6 biilins of their fellow Humans
But saying that their SATGUR are in continuity of Guru Nanak Dev Ji Lineage IS OFEENDING TO BASIC BELIEF OF MANY ON THIS FORUM AND SHOULD BE AVIODED NOW AND THEN ON THIS FORUM Instead its validity could be disscused here in this particular thread
Quote:
So what would be the final solution for Namdharis? Gas chambers?
In my view : I would with all the good qualities that you and your faction have you place should be in every body heart and I don’t think that you need to change unless th AKAL P+URAKH wants so but you are most welcome to join main sream SIKHI with open arms with SHABAD Gurru as the GUIDE if it suits you
I hope this thread contuse further with inputs of all others on this forum and may help to solve some issues
Writing this many mistakes and also some of my thought might hurt somebody but believe me its noyt intentional and I stands to be corrected
Again I would say I respect cherish all sampadas including NAM DHARI for all the Good qualities and enrichment they provide to SIKHI and hop=e it increases in future
Jatinder Singh
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More...
Iam strating this thread with reluctance as it should be my Naamdhari brother who should have done for the reason best best known to him he never didi it even on my two request
My Naamdhari Fellow have some complains with the main stream sikh ( also called Shabad guru/singh sabha by Naamdhari ) these are the few I can get fronm the 35 posts that he has posted here on forum . Resr he can add further and all can contribute to it
1) According to the information given by naamdhari sikh some people of there community have faced hate and physical abuse at hands of other main stream sikh .
Quote:
Our children, women and youth are being beaten, insulted and abused. Our Guru is abused and threats are being levelled towards Him. It is only by His Command that we are not retaliating. We are taught not to attack anyone, least of all our fellow Gurubhais and Bhens. We will refrain from escalating this violence. So I have turned to the net to see if there are any people of wisdom left within the Sikh community.
Written by Naamdhari Sikh
my view : Personally I have never seen it happening as first person but I still can imagine this happening where there are Radical Sikhs who are hate filled for everybody non sikhs BUT THEY DONT REPRESENT THE MAJORITY SIKH COMMUNITY AND WHAT THEY DO IS WRONG AND I KNOW MAJORITY WILL AGREE WITH ME . but this does not make all sikhs anti NAAMDHARI by default as my brither Naa dhari here thinks so this is limitation of his expereinces . personally I have naamdhari class mates in professional college an d nothin of such kind ever proped in my mind
And you message alos gives A warning tha the reason you are not retaliating is your guru,s command is that a warning or just the same violience that you claim to face from others?
2) Quote:
Under the Holy umbrella of the Aadh Sri Guru Granth Sahib you are subtly being taught to hate, you are being taught that anyone who doesn't believe the Holy Granth to be 'alive and living' is insulting the Gurujis' Granth Sahib.
( written by Naamdhari)
My view : This is very cheap little thinking or view tha you have of main stream sikh and not reality and it shows the same behaviour ou complian about that you face
ME HOLIER THAN YOU . If you r revered Staguru is teaching you Gurbani than this does not make it best interpretation and the only interpretation for all those who don’t bekieve in Your Satguru
Again all Sikhs are not taught about hate as you presume as SIKH family now number in crores and there bound to variation in character of people also diversity in people even in main stream There are many sadhus in main stream and many sikh organisation LIKE TAKSAL, Sant Sampradas and many MAHA Purush in past and present that have taught message of love and peace and not HATE AS YOU Persume for all the Sikhs
So please be open to others and for a change consider a possibility of you also being wrong somewhere as just blessing of your Satguru does not make you infallible atleast in your observations and notions
3) Quote:
Just as anyone who doesn't support Khalistan is not a Sikh?
Can there be no other perspective?
written by NaamDhari Sikh
My View:
this is very Minority view you are talking about I don’t believe in it and many others I have interacted in past three years in online interaction also doesnot believe in such radicle views
Yes there can be many other prepective and already they exist also as part of main sikh stream
4) Quote:
All of the views I have expressed on these forums are views on Sikhi that have been untarnished by the Singh Sabha movement, whose thinking was and is greatly influenced by Western European thought.
.. And first there was the WORD is a passage out of Biblical text.
To believe that your Guru is not to be distinguished different from God is an ancient Sanatan concept that comes down to us from time immemorial. The concept of Karam and 840,000 lives the soul has to migrate through was not invented by Guru Nanak Devji. Recitation of Naam was not invented by Guru Nanak Devji. These are concepts that were taught by God in the oldest language known to Mankind in the OLDEST scriptures known to mankind.
Guru Nanak Devji came to this Earth in this Kalyug age (again a Vedic concept) to refresh Mankind's memory about it's origins and truth of Dharam. That Dharam which exists since the dawn of creation. The Dharam that has it's origins in the Land we call Bharat.
Have shame when you speak of this holy land with venom in your minds. Bow your heads in honour when you speak of this land.
if any one expresses any opinion that even slightly challenges your views you come out with all your guns blazing.
written by NAAMDHARI SIKH.
My View :
In my view you also need to do some homework here . Your view of having living Guru and that also in continuity with Tenth Guru Sahibans Guru Gobind Singh ji finds no takers in any sikh groups whether they are Singh Sabha or anti Singh sabha
Many groups I would like to mention here have very independent philosophy but are all one on this issue of shabad guru with there independent source and belief
( AKALI NAIHANG SINGH BUDAADAL
AKALI NIHUNG SINGH TARUNA DAL,
NIRMALA SAMPRADHA
UDHASI SAMPRADA
SANT SAMAJ
SEWA PANTHI SAMPRADA
DAMDAMI TAKSAL
All these sampradas have many views diffrent from SINGH SABHA and even there own rehats which vary significantly BUT ALL ARE ONE ON THE ISSUE OF SAHAB GURU WITH NO LIVING GURU and all these claim there inception itself from time of SRI GURU GOBIND SINGH JI MAHARAJ and their cliam is independent of each other soYOUR CLAIM OF SINGH SABHA BRAINWASHED BY BRITISH seems Childish and even can be taken as your Brainwashing done on purpose .
ALL the conceptts you are trying to mention above about Guru parmeshwar , continuity with snatan dharm is well taught in main stream as well so don’t take p=ride in your exclusive source of knowledge as AKAL PURAKH like to have mercy on all including us even if you think us wrong!
5)Now what Amounts to be offending when talking about SATGURU
In my view :
any body calling his satuguru and bestower of enlightment is not offending even if it is Satguru of Naamdhari
Any body who wants to use verse p=artly or wholly of Sri guru granth sahib for their spirtual expansion even if it means interp=reting it with guidance of there own guru does not seems to offend me
BUT any body claiming that their guru a are the SATGUR for whole humanity ( which atleast 20 such gurus I can count on fingers )then its their heasdache to convince 6 biilins of their fellow Humans
But saying that their SATGUR are in continuity of Guru Nanak Dev Ji Lineage IS OFEENDING TO BASIC BELIEF OF MANY ON THIS FORUM AND SHOULD BE AVIODED NOW AND THEN ON THIS FORUM Instead its validity could be disscused here in this particular thread
Quote:
So what would be the final solution for Namdharis? Gas chambers?
In my view : I would with all the good qualities that you and your faction have you place should be in every body heart and I don’t think that you need to change unless th AKAL P+URAKH wants so but you are most welcome to join main sream SIKHI with open arms with SHABAD Gurru as the GUIDE if it suits you
I hope this thread contuse further with inputs of all others on this forum and may help to solve some issues
Writing this many mistakes and also some of my thought might hurt somebody but believe me its noyt intentional and I stands to be corrected
Again I would say I respect cherish all sampadas including NAM DHARI for all the Good qualities and enrichment they provide to SIKHI and hop=e it increases in future
Jatinder Singh
----------------------------------------
-------- --------------------------------
More...