Dear friends,
We all interpret bani as per our understanding. But sometime we feel that we may not be correct and seek the help of others to resolve the issue.
One of such issues for me is to understand Guru in terms of bani and Sikhism.
We have many kinds of references in The Granth Sahib:
By default we are left with two meanings that we assign to the term.One may refer to the Primal Lord and other is the Granth sahib on the premise that bani is Nirankaar or it has been recommended so by the Tenth Master.
Let us look at Today's Hukumnama. I shall take up the English lines as it shall be helpful in making the point clear.
Who could be perfect Guru in the above lines.?
[As per that I understand perfect Guru and Lord should be the same but it is denied as per the above]
[July 1, 2008, Tuesday 04:30 AM. IST]
[SIZE=+1] (AMg: 622) [/SIZE] [SIZE=+1]
pMjwbI ivAwiKAw :[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]English Translation :[/SIZE]
Tuesday, 17th Assaar (Samvat 540 Nanakshahi)
Kindly clarify with your opinion as to what should we infer when there is a reference to Guru in Bani .
A
ibnu siqgur iknY n pwieE, ibnu siqgur iknY n pwieAw ]
Without the True Guru, no one has obtained the Lord; without the True Guru, no one has obtained the Lord.
Question-1
Is Satguru here the Lord or the Granth sahib?
By default I would place it as Granth sahib.
nwnk nwmu smwil qU gur kY hyiq Apwir ]5]20]53] (34-13, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
[FONT="]O Nanak, immerse yourself in the Naam, through the Infinite Love of the Guru. [/FONT]
Question -2
In the above line I shall prefer to place the meaning of Guru as the Lord HIMSELF or is there any possibility of making it look like Granth sahib.?
B.
siqguir hir pRBu buiJAw gur jyvfu Avru n koie ] (39-18, isrIrwgu, mÚ 4)
[FONT="]The True Guru understands the Lord God. There is no other as Great as the Guru.
If Satguru is Sabad guru and translation is correct, the meaning of 'true guru understands the Lord' shall have to be translated slightly in a different manner or will it mean literally that 'Granth sahib' understands the Lord God'. Seemingly I am not able to reconcile.
Similarly the next line 'there is no other Great as guru ' shall also mean that there is no one as great Granth sahib . It should ,however, mean that No one is as great as Lord.
[/FONT]
C
DMnu vfBwgI vf BwgIAw jo Awie imly gur pwis ]2] (40-7, isrIrwgu, mÚ 4)
[FONT="]Blessed, and most fortunate of the very fortunate, are those who come to meet the Guru. [/FONT]
Question-3
[FONT="]Who is referred to as guru in the above. ? I have intentionally put in 'one -liners' only to see if there is some standardization of the term. Guru/Satguru/perfect guru/Guru and similar words.
Kindly expand the above lines at B and C and also see questions 1,2 and 3 . Opinion of members would be highly appreciated. It was a long over due post but after spending almost an year or so I am not able to debug the meaning automatically.
Regards
Wjkk WjkF [/FONT]
More...
We all interpret bani as per our understanding. But sometime we feel that we may not be correct and seek the help of others to resolve the issue.
One of such issues for me is to understand Guru in terms of bani and Sikhism.
We have many kinds of references in The Granth Sahib:
- True Guru
- Sat Guru
- Perfect Guru
- Guru
- Granth Sahib
- Besides aad Guru, Jugaad guru, Sri Guru dev...etc
By default we are left with two meanings that we assign to the term.One may refer to the Primal Lord and other is the Granth sahib on the premise that bani is Nirankaar or it has been recommended so by the Tenth Master.
Let us look at Today's Hukumnama. I shall take up the English lines as it shall be helpful in making the point clear.
- The Perfect Guru has saved us. I sought the Sanctuary of the True Lord.
Who could be perfect Guru in the above lines.?
[As per that I understand perfect Guru and Lord should be the same but it is denied as per the above]
[July 1, 2008, Tuesday 04:30 AM. IST]
[SIZE=+1] soriT mhlw 5 ] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] TwiF pweI krqwry ] qwpu Coif gieAw prvwry ] guir pUrY hY rwKI ] srix scy kI qwkI ]1] prmysru Awip hoAw rKvwlw ] sWiq shj suK iKn mih aupjy mnu hoAw sdw suKwlw ] rhwau ] hir hir nwmu dIE dwrU ] iqin sglw rogu ibdwrU ] ApxI ikrpw DwrI ] iqin sglI bwq svwrI ]2] pRiB Apnw ibrdu smwirAw ] hmrw guxu Avguxu n bIcwirAw ] gur kw sbdu BieE swKI ] iqin sglI lwj rwKI ]3] bolwieAw bolI qyrw ] qU swihbu guxI ghyrw ] jip nwnk nwmu scu swKI ] Apuny dws kI pYj rwKI ]4]6]56] [/SIZE] [SIZE=+1] (AMg: 622) [/SIZE] [SIZE=+1]
pMjwbI ivAwiKAw :[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] soriT mhlw 5 ] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] hy BweI! ijs mnu`K dy AMdr krqwr ny TMf vrqw id`qI, aus dy prvwr (aus dy igAwn-ieMidAW ivkwrW dw) qwp C`f jWdw hY [ hy BweI! pUry gurU ny ijs mnu`K dI mdd kIqI, aus ny sdw kwiem rihx vwly prmwqmw dw Awsrw q`k ilAw [1[hy BweI! ijs mnu`K dw rwKw prmwqmw Awp bx jWdw hY, aus dw mn sdw vwsqy suKI ho jWdw hY (ikauNik aus dy AMdr) iek iCn ivc Awqmk Afolqw dy suK qy SWqI pYdw ho jWdy hn [rhwau[hy BweI! (ivkwr-rogW dw ielwj krn vwsqy gurU ny ijs mnu`K ) prmwqmw dw nwm-dvweI id`qI aus nwm-dwrU ny aus mnu`K dw swrw hI (ivkwr-) rog k`t id`qw [ jdoN pRBU ny aus mnu`K auqy AwpxI myhr kIqI, qW aus ny AwpxI swrI jIvn-khwxI hI sohxI bxw leI (Awpxw swrw jIvn sMvwr ilAw) [2[hy BweI! pRBU ny (sdw hI) Awpxy mu`F-kdImW dy (ipAwr vwly) suBwv cyqy r`iKAw hY [ auh swfw jIvW dw koeI gux jW AOgux idl qy lw nhIN r`Kdw [ (pRBU dI ikrpw nwl ijs mnu`K dy AMdr) gurU dy Sbd ny Awpxw pRBwv pwieAw, Sbd ny aus dI swrI ie`zq r`K leI (aus ivkwrW dy Fhy cVHn qoN bcw ilAw) [3[hy pRBU! qUM swfw mwlk hYN, qUM guxW dw ^zwnw hYN, qUM fUMGy ijgry vwlw hYN [ jdoN qUM pRyrnw dyNdw hYN qdoN hI mYN qyrI is&iq-swlwh kr skdw hW [ hy nwnk! sdw-iQr pRBU dw nwm jipAw kr, iehI sdw hwmI Brn vwlw hY [ pRBU Awpxy syvk dI (sdw) ie`zq r`Kdw AwieAw hY [4[6[56[ [/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]English Translation :[/SIZE]
SORAT'H, FIFTH MEHL:
The Creator has brought utter peace to my home; the fever has left my family. The Perfect Guru has saved us. I sought the Sanctuary of the True Lord. || 1 || The Transcendent Lord Himself has become my Protector. Tranquility, intuitive peace and poise welled up in an instant, and my mind was comforted forever. || Pause || The Lord, Har, Har, gave me the medicine of His Name, which has cured all disease. He extended His Mercy to me, and resolved all these affairs. || 2 || God confirmed His loving nature; He did not take my merits or demerits into account. The Word of the Guru's Shabad has become manifest, and through it, my honor was totally preserved. || 3 || I speak as You cause me to speak; O Lord and Friday, 23rd Poh (Samvat 538 Nanakshahi) Master, You are the ocean of excellence. Nanak chants the Naam, the Name of the Lord, according to the Teachings of Truth. God preserves the honor of His slaves. || 4 || 6 || 56 || Tuesday, 17th Assaar (Samvat 540 Nanakshahi)
Kindly clarify with your opinion as to what should we infer when there is a reference to Guru in Bani .
A
ibnu siqgur iknY n pwieE, ibnu siqgur iknY n pwieAw ]
Without the True Guru, no one has obtained the Lord; without the True Guru, no one has obtained the Lord.
Question-1
Is Satguru here the Lord or the Granth sahib?
By default I would place it as Granth sahib.
nwnk nwmu smwil qU gur kY hyiq Apwir ]5]20]53] (34-13, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
[FONT="]O Nanak, immerse yourself in the Naam, through the Infinite Love of the Guru. [/FONT]
Question -2
In the above line I shall prefer to place the meaning of Guru as the Lord HIMSELF or is there any possibility of making it look like Granth sahib.?
B.
siqguir hir pRBu buiJAw gur jyvfu Avru n koie ] (39-18, isrIrwgu, mÚ 4)
[FONT="]The True Guru understands the Lord God. There is no other as Great as the Guru.
If Satguru is Sabad guru and translation is correct, the meaning of 'true guru understands the Lord' shall have to be translated slightly in a different manner or will it mean literally that 'Granth sahib' understands the Lord God'. Seemingly I am not able to reconcile.
Similarly the next line 'there is no other Great as guru ' shall also mean that there is no one as great Granth sahib . It should ,however, mean that No one is as great as Lord.
[/FONT]
C
DMnu vfBwgI vf BwgIAw jo Awie imly gur pwis ]2] (40-7, isrIrwgu, mÚ 4)
[FONT="]Blessed, and most fortunate of the very fortunate, are those who come to meet the Guru. [/FONT]
Question-3
[FONT="]Who is referred to as guru in the above. ? I have intentionally put in 'one -liners' only to see if there is some standardization of the term. Guru/Satguru/perfect guru/Guru and similar words.
Kindly expand the above lines at B and C and also see questions 1,2 and 3 . Opinion of members would be highly appreciated. It was a long over due post but after spending almost an year or so I am not able to debug the meaning automatically.
Regards
Wjkk WjkF [/FONT]
More...