Comparison of Sikhism with other religions
Namaste Bishma,
I accused you of being a bigoted, ethnocentric Sikh. Which facet of Hinduism prohibits accusing others of error?
-- And you have the brain power to do that, because you are of course errorless!! Thus another example of your respect towards your own relgion!!
__________________________________________________ __________
I understand that Sikhism rejects the notion of an avatar-- correct me if I’m mistaken. If I am correct then I wonder how you can claim some form of superiority of Guru Gobind Singhji Maharaj over any other great man… Could you explain this for me?
--- I didn't said any other great man!!! I said Chhatrapati Shiva ji Maharaj! Guru Gobind Singh ji Maharaj never said that they were superior than for example Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj, or Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj.
__________________________________________________ __________
Apart from your infantile and unmanly name-calling, I see that you’ve only validated my earlier observation that you’re a bigoted, ethnocentric Sikh. Not only have you hypocritically accused me of being “narrow-minded and ignorant” but also each and every pandit who has ever lived.
-- And...?? did I say anything wrong here??? Aren't they like a barrier between common people and God?
__________________________________________________ __________
I always believed that “Khalsa” was a panth and not a religion. The religion is Sikhism and Khalsa is a panth of that religion. Once again, correct me if I’m mistaken.
-- My mistake.. but I believe to have said that Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj started Sikhism and Guru Gobind Singh ji Maharaj created Khalsa... Anyways, my mistake and I take it back...
__________________________________________________ __________
Rather, Hinduism takes the stand of trying to correct incorrect thoughts through argumentation. So there are no such things in Hinduism as “heretical” thoughts.
-- you know, I really can't remember when RSS stood for that thought against the british??? Ordinary hindus have stood for that thought, but not RSS! Seems like for RSS talking is very cheap... and they have lots of it.
__________________________________________________ __________
As a Hindu, I cannot accept your argument that I should not compare Guru Gobind Singhji Maharaj to Chatrapati Shivaji Maharaj simply because such a comparison seems uncomfortable to you and the people of your faith. Such an argument as the one you seem to make implies that the Sikh gurus have found some sort of surreal truth and superiority which is not quite comprehendible/attainable to the rest of us.
-- Should I care about if you reject my arguments??? Anyways, try to compare day and night (just hypothetically speaking). And what need do RSS feel... I mean what do they wanna reach by comparing Guru Gobind Singh ji Maharaj with Shiva ji Maharaj? If they are so proud of there background and there thoughts why do they feel this foolish urge to compare sikh Gurus with anyone??? Arn't they man enough for what they are??? I really can't understand that!!!
__________________________________________________ __________
This can only contradict itself if Sikhism rejects the notion of an avatar. If Guru Gobind Singhji Maharaj was composed of the same nerves, arteries, muscle tissue, bones, and blood as the rest of us, then he can be compared to those who are the greatest amongst us.
--- Let me tell you something... I will hate to say or hear those words said even regarding lord Raam. Anyways, Avtars are nothing we have in Sikhism. Anyone, who ever stood against evil and dared to lift his/her head up against injustise, RSS calls them avtars, because in that way they don't have to risk there life in the cause of justise like "avtars"... They just say "oh, he/she must be a avtar of a God, what he/she did, we ordinary can't do"...."oh, hamare mai-baap..."!!! Really pathatic... really...
__________________________________________________ __________
Chatrapati Shivaji Maharaj was certainly one of the greatest amongst us and therefore I can see no logical reason why such a comparison should be avoided-- aside from perhaps that it hurts your Sikh bigotry/ethnocentricity. Let me leave you with yet another reason as to why, as a Hindu, I reject your argument…
-- I agree once again.. that Chhatrapati Shiva ji Maharaj was a great hero... But still not even closed to be compared with Guru Gobind Singh ji Maharaj.. Guru ji were only 9 when they suggested there father Guru Teg Bahadur Sahib ji to scarifice there life in order to save Kashmiri Pandits. Which happened in Delhi at Gurudwara Sis Ganj Sahib. Those pandits where not of any relationship to Guru ji. Those pandits were only seen upon as people in need and help. Further more, Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj scarifice there two little Sahibjade at Sirhind at the age of only 5 and 7. Whey Guru ji heard about that insident, they didn't even shed a single tear. And two older sahibjade got shaheed at Chamkaur Sahib. When during the battle sahibjade felt thirst and came back to ask father (Guru Gobind Singh ji Maharaj)for some water... Guru ji said, "Apni pyaas dooshman de khoon naal bhoojao".. And both sahibjade went back to the battle and laid down there lives... They didn't care if they were only 5 (two sahibjade with 3 Singhs)against the army of more than one lakh. Where do you find examples like these in history of Chhatrapati Shiva ji Maharaj... As I told you before.. I have great respect for Shiva ji Maharaj as a man of word and as by his deeds...
Guru Gobind Singh ji Maharaj was also known as:
Shah-e-Shahenshah,
Mazlooman da rakha,
Noor dar har chashm,
Rooh dar har jism,
Kabil-e-har kaar,
Khasam raja ka, (husband of rajas)
And much much more...
It is very dificult to tell someone about there greatness... I am only trying...
__________________________________________________ __________
-- aside from perhaps that it hurts your Sikh bigotry/ethnocentricity.
--- What hurts me most is to see how ungratefull people are of RSS!!! By the way, do you know "anakh" means? This word is also very central in Sikhism.. and among every other brave hearted!!!
__________________________________________________ __________
Once again correct me if I’m mistaken, but by implying that Guru Gobind Singhji Maharaj cannot be compared to other mortal men even though he, himself was a mortal man (albeit a great one at that), you seem to be worshipping ghosts and spirits.
---Another fine example of petty RSS mind... Guru Gobind Singh ji are not dead! They said at Hazoor Sahib, right before they left there body... "If someone wants to talk with me, he/she can do it by reading Guru Grath Sahib with whole heart and with love... If someone wants for see me, he can see my great Khalsa..." Guru ji are not dead... they become amar.. and still as alive as in 1666 - 1708.
__________________________________________________ __________
The RSS was created in the 1920s-- I believe. I hope you don’t intend to hold time against the RSS. If that is the level of your argument then I ask you, where were the Sikhs at the time of Mahmood Ghori? LOL…
--- This takes the cake...!! This is soooooooo rediculous that I can't even tell you!!! tell me one thing... who ruled India that the time of Muhammad Ghore??? If I am not mistaken... I think it was Prithvi Raaj Chauhaan, right? That means indians ruled india... and if Ghori attacked india, Indians should have been able to strike him back, but no.... while pandits were busy dividing people in different caste, ghori attacked and went happily back home...
It is like a thief, walks into your house, and takes everything of desire and just walks out... LOL is at your face! As for sikhs and khalsa were created to spread the good word of God and to protect the ordinary people and for freedom...Sikhs have always fought for religious freedom for everyone... but RSS is trying to bury the essens of what Khalsa stands for...!!! That creates an other questions in my mind... Why is there a RSS?? what is RSS doing and its mission??? Why not be content with what hinduism is??? why start another sect and create problems for whole India??? Why can't RSS understand that everyone in India is not Hindu?? Nobody says anything to RSS.. But RSS has to go and creat unnecessary problems for other believers??? Do what ever you want, just stay out of sikhism..!! Why don't keep your nose to yourself... and stop poking it were it doesn't belong??!!
Just of the record, I have respect of hinduism... But this discussion is about RSS!!!
__________________________________________________ __________
So is Hinduism. Furthermore, Hinduism is against the belief that any one mortal being can attain a status so high that it cannot be attained by other mortal beings. I assume from my debate with you here that Sikhism disagrees with this…
--- LOL this statments of your proves that pandits are not hindus... Hmmm.. I like that thought. My dear friend what you are saying is very good.. but not praticed by pandits... they still wanna maintane there barriers of castes... But Guru Gobind Singh ji Maharaj not even said, but also did it..!!! In 1699, the day of vaisakhi, when Guru ji created Khalsa... and then bowed infront of Five Pyaras and asked them for please also grant them (Guru ji) amrit. Guru ji called there Khalsa for Guru Khalsa...
"Vaho Vaho Gobind Singh,
Ape Guru-chela.."
You have to present your head to become a Khalsa.. That day Singh became Guru and Guru was become Singh. Never ever in the history of man kind, anything like this has happened...!!! One who was Guru, remaind Guru and one who was follower, remaind follower for his life... But that was changed at the big open ground of Kesgarh sahib in 1699.
__________________________________________________ __________
Yes, it seems that you’re interested in repressing thoughts. People who know that they cannot defend their beliefs try to repress others, those who think they can try to convince others.
--- RSS is repressing other religions.. Can RSS defend their beliefs??? So, why is RSS trying like crazy bunch of people to repress what sikhs thinks and believes of their own why of thinking and their religion???
__________________________________________________ __________
So as you can see, the vast majority of Hindus today are practicing their religion incorrectly. I think the same can be said about people of all religions today-- don’t you?
--- yeah.. but if all the people starts to follow there religion with kind heart and love... Religions were not made to create barriers for people, they were made to unite them...
__________________________________________________ __________
Main Entry: gu·ru
Pronunciation: 'gur-(")ü also g&-'rü
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural gurus
Etymology: Hindi guru, from Sanskrit guru, from guru, adjective, heavy, venerable -- more at GRIEVE
Date: 1613
1 : a personal religious teacher and spiritual guide in Hinduism
2 a : a teacher and especially intellectual guide in matters of fundamental concern b : one who is an acknowledged leader or chief proponent c : a person with knowledge or expertise : EXPERT
Source: Merriam-Webster Online
Their definition matches with mine. I would also like to add that a guru can instruct by words and/or actions. But anyway, what’s your definition?
-- your defination of Guru is simply by the book and to some extent right... but there is still something missing... it is like calling your father as a "man married to your mom"... there is no passion.. no repect... and no sence of gratitude what so ever..
__________________________________________________ __________
Furthermore, I can certainly attest to the fact that Chatrapati Shivaji Maharaj is also a source of inspiration for countless people.
-- Who did anything like Shiva ji Maharaj... Who was inspired by him???
__________________________________________________ __________
So are you claiming that Guru Gobind Singhji Maharaj was never inspired by the actions of anyone else? If that’s what you’re trying to say then that’s quite a big claim.
-- Those are your words.. not mine.. All I said that Guru Gobind Singh ji Maharaj were source of inspiration to everyone... That doesn't automatically say that Guru ji were never inspired by anyone... His sight inspired all the followers and will inspire to all eternity...
__________________________________________________ __________
when you come into a Hindu religious forum and insult RSS members by referring to them as “fools”, you open yourself up to debate/criticism by anyone who belongs to that organization.
What part of this don’t you understand? Furthermore…
--- What is there to understand about RSS??? Are you surpise to see someone who can say what he thinks about RSS, while RSS can just go ahead and say what ever about who ever?? __________________________________________________ __________
Thoughts don’t force people to compare. Thoughts are simply the manifestation of electrical impulses in the brain. Some thoughts may be correct, others may be incorrect.
--- so, by that it means that RSS is a organisation of incorrect thoughts??
__________________________________________________ __________
In short, does Sikhism instruct others to believe that no human being can ever match the ten gurus in terms of moral greatness?
-- I told you ... what other talk about... Guru Gobind Singh ji Maharaj has done it...At the open ground of Kesgarh Sahib...!!!
__________________________________________________ __________
You have stated many good things written in holy books.. but unfortunatly .... pandits have never let comman people know about the goodness of hinduism...
__________________________________________________ __________
Nimana
More...
Namaste Bishma,
I accused you of being a bigoted, ethnocentric Sikh. Which facet of Hinduism prohibits accusing others of error?
-- And you have the brain power to do that, because you are of course errorless!! Thus another example of your respect towards your own relgion!!
__________________________________________________ __________
I understand that Sikhism rejects the notion of an avatar-- correct me if I’m mistaken. If I am correct then I wonder how you can claim some form of superiority of Guru Gobind Singhji Maharaj over any other great man… Could you explain this for me?
--- I didn't said any other great man!!! I said Chhatrapati Shiva ji Maharaj! Guru Gobind Singh ji Maharaj never said that they were superior than for example Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj, or Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj.
__________________________________________________ __________
Apart from your infantile and unmanly name-calling, I see that you’ve only validated my earlier observation that you’re a bigoted, ethnocentric Sikh. Not only have you hypocritically accused me of being “narrow-minded and ignorant” but also each and every pandit who has ever lived.
-- And...?? did I say anything wrong here??? Aren't they like a barrier between common people and God?
__________________________________________________ __________
I always believed that “Khalsa” was a panth and not a religion. The religion is Sikhism and Khalsa is a panth of that religion. Once again, correct me if I’m mistaken.
-- My mistake.. but I believe to have said that Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj started Sikhism and Guru Gobind Singh ji Maharaj created Khalsa... Anyways, my mistake and I take it back...
__________________________________________________ __________
Rather, Hinduism takes the stand of trying to correct incorrect thoughts through argumentation. So there are no such things in Hinduism as “heretical” thoughts.
-- you know, I really can't remember when RSS stood for that thought against the british??? Ordinary hindus have stood for that thought, but not RSS! Seems like for RSS talking is very cheap... and they have lots of it.
__________________________________________________ __________
As a Hindu, I cannot accept your argument that I should not compare Guru Gobind Singhji Maharaj to Chatrapati Shivaji Maharaj simply because such a comparison seems uncomfortable to you and the people of your faith. Such an argument as the one you seem to make implies that the Sikh gurus have found some sort of surreal truth and superiority which is not quite comprehendible/attainable to the rest of us.
-- Should I care about if you reject my arguments??? Anyways, try to compare day and night (just hypothetically speaking). And what need do RSS feel... I mean what do they wanna reach by comparing Guru Gobind Singh ji Maharaj with Shiva ji Maharaj? If they are so proud of there background and there thoughts why do they feel this foolish urge to compare sikh Gurus with anyone??? Arn't they man enough for what they are??? I really can't understand that!!!
__________________________________________________ __________
This can only contradict itself if Sikhism rejects the notion of an avatar. If Guru Gobind Singhji Maharaj was composed of the same nerves, arteries, muscle tissue, bones, and blood as the rest of us, then he can be compared to those who are the greatest amongst us.
--- Let me tell you something... I will hate to say or hear those words said even regarding lord Raam. Anyways, Avtars are nothing we have in Sikhism. Anyone, who ever stood against evil and dared to lift his/her head up against injustise, RSS calls them avtars, because in that way they don't have to risk there life in the cause of justise like "avtars"... They just say "oh, he/she must be a avtar of a God, what he/she did, we ordinary can't do"...."oh, hamare mai-baap..."!!! Really pathatic... really...
__________________________________________________ __________
Chatrapati Shivaji Maharaj was certainly one of the greatest amongst us and therefore I can see no logical reason why such a comparison should be avoided-- aside from perhaps that it hurts your Sikh bigotry/ethnocentricity. Let me leave you with yet another reason as to why, as a Hindu, I reject your argument…
-- I agree once again.. that Chhatrapati Shiva ji Maharaj was a great hero... But still not even closed to be compared with Guru Gobind Singh ji Maharaj.. Guru ji were only 9 when they suggested there father Guru Teg Bahadur Sahib ji to scarifice there life in order to save Kashmiri Pandits. Which happened in Delhi at Gurudwara Sis Ganj Sahib. Those pandits where not of any relationship to Guru ji. Those pandits were only seen upon as people in need and help. Further more, Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj scarifice there two little Sahibjade at Sirhind at the age of only 5 and 7. Whey Guru ji heard about that insident, they didn't even shed a single tear. And two older sahibjade got shaheed at Chamkaur Sahib. When during the battle sahibjade felt thirst and came back to ask father (Guru Gobind Singh ji Maharaj)for some water... Guru ji said, "Apni pyaas dooshman de khoon naal bhoojao".. And both sahibjade went back to the battle and laid down there lives... They didn't care if they were only 5 (two sahibjade with 3 Singhs)against the army of more than one lakh. Where do you find examples like these in history of Chhatrapati Shiva ji Maharaj... As I told you before.. I have great respect for Shiva ji Maharaj as a man of word and as by his deeds...
Guru Gobind Singh ji Maharaj was also known as:
Shah-e-Shahenshah,
Mazlooman da rakha,
Noor dar har chashm,
Rooh dar har jism,
Kabil-e-har kaar,
Khasam raja ka, (husband of rajas)
And much much more...
It is very dificult to tell someone about there greatness... I am only trying...
__________________________________________________ __________
-- aside from perhaps that it hurts your Sikh bigotry/ethnocentricity.
--- What hurts me most is to see how ungratefull people are of RSS!!! By the way, do you know "anakh" means? This word is also very central in Sikhism.. and among every other brave hearted!!!
__________________________________________________ __________
Once again correct me if I’m mistaken, but by implying that Guru Gobind Singhji Maharaj cannot be compared to other mortal men even though he, himself was a mortal man (albeit a great one at that), you seem to be worshipping ghosts and spirits.
---Another fine example of petty RSS mind... Guru Gobind Singh ji are not dead! They said at Hazoor Sahib, right before they left there body... "If someone wants to talk with me, he/she can do it by reading Guru Grath Sahib with whole heart and with love... If someone wants for see me, he can see my great Khalsa..." Guru ji are not dead... they become amar.. and still as alive as in 1666 - 1708.
__________________________________________________ __________
The RSS was created in the 1920s-- I believe. I hope you don’t intend to hold time against the RSS. If that is the level of your argument then I ask you, where were the Sikhs at the time of Mahmood Ghori? LOL…
--- This takes the cake...!! This is soooooooo rediculous that I can't even tell you!!! tell me one thing... who ruled India that the time of Muhammad Ghore??? If I am not mistaken... I think it was Prithvi Raaj Chauhaan, right? That means indians ruled india... and if Ghori attacked india, Indians should have been able to strike him back, but no.... while pandits were busy dividing people in different caste, ghori attacked and went happily back home...
It is like a thief, walks into your house, and takes everything of desire and just walks out... LOL is at your face! As for sikhs and khalsa were created to spread the good word of God and to protect the ordinary people and for freedom...Sikhs have always fought for religious freedom for everyone... but RSS is trying to bury the essens of what Khalsa stands for...!!! That creates an other questions in my mind... Why is there a RSS?? what is RSS doing and its mission??? Why not be content with what hinduism is??? why start another sect and create problems for whole India??? Why can't RSS understand that everyone in India is not Hindu?? Nobody says anything to RSS.. But RSS has to go and creat unnecessary problems for other believers??? Do what ever you want, just stay out of sikhism..!! Why don't keep your nose to yourself... and stop poking it were it doesn't belong??!!
Just of the record, I have respect of hinduism... But this discussion is about RSS!!!
__________________________________________________ __________
So is Hinduism. Furthermore, Hinduism is against the belief that any one mortal being can attain a status so high that it cannot be attained by other mortal beings. I assume from my debate with you here that Sikhism disagrees with this…
--- LOL this statments of your proves that pandits are not hindus... Hmmm.. I like that thought. My dear friend what you are saying is very good.. but not praticed by pandits... they still wanna maintane there barriers of castes... But Guru Gobind Singh ji Maharaj not even said, but also did it..!!! In 1699, the day of vaisakhi, when Guru ji created Khalsa... and then bowed infront of Five Pyaras and asked them for please also grant them (Guru ji) amrit. Guru ji called there Khalsa for Guru Khalsa...
"Vaho Vaho Gobind Singh,
Ape Guru-chela.."
You have to present your head to become a Khalsa.. That day Singh became Guru and Guru was become Singh. Never ever in the history of man kind, anything like this has happened...!!! One who was Guru, remaind Guru and one who was follower, remaind follower for his life... But that was changed at the big open ground of Kesgarh sahib in 1699.
__________________________________________________ __________
Yes, it seems that you’re interested in repressing thoughts. People who know that they cannot defend their beliefs try to repress others, those who think they can try to convince others.
--- RSS is repressing other religions.. Can RSS defend their beliefs??? So, why is RSS trying like crazy bunch of people to repress what sikhs thinks and believes of their own why of thinking and their religion???
__________________________________________________ __________
So as you can see, the vast majority of Hindus today are practicing their religion incorrectly. I think the same can be said about people of all religions today-- don’t you?
--- yeah.. but if all the people starts to follow there religion with kind heart and love... Religions were not made to create barriers for people, they were made to unite them...
__________________________________________________ __________
Main Entry: gu·ru
Pronunciation: 'gur-(")ü also g&-'rü
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural gurus
Etymology: Hindi guru, from Sanskrit guru, from guru, adjective, heavy, venerable -- more at GRIEVE
Date: 1613
1 : a personal religious teacher and spiritual guide in Hinduism
2 a : a teacher and especially intellectual guide in matters of fundamental concern b : one who is an acknowledged leader or chief proponent c : a person with knowledge or expertise : EXPERT
Source: Merriam-Webster Online
Their definition matches with mine. I would also like to add that a guru can instruct by words and/or actions. But anyway, what’s your definition?
-- your defination of Guru is simply by the book and to some extent right... but there is still something missing... it is like calling your father as a "man married to your mom"... there is no passion.. no repect... and no sence of gratitude what so ever..
__________________________________________________ __________
Furthermore, I can certainly attest to the fact that Chatrapati Shivaji Maharaj is also a source of inspiration for countless people.
-- Who did anything like Shiva ji Maharaj... Who was inspired by him???
__________________________________________________ __________
So are you claiming that Guru Gobind Singhji Maharaj was never inspired by the actions of anyone else? If that’s what you’re trying to say then that’s quite a big claim.
-- Those are your words.. not mine.. All I said that Guru Gobind Singh ji Maharaj were source of inspiration to everyone... That doesn't automatically say that Guru ji were never inspired by anyone... His sight inspired all the followers and will inspire to all eternity...
__________________________________________________ __________
when you come into a Hindu religious forum and insult RSS members by referring to them as “fools”, you open yourself up to debate/criticism by anyone who belongs to that organization.
What part of this don’t you understand? Furthermore…
--- What is there to understand about RSS??? Are you surpise to see someone who can say what he thinks about RSS, while RSS can just go ahead and say what ever about who ever?? __________________________________________________ __________
Thoughts don’t force people to compare. Thoughts are simply the manifestation of electrical impulses in the brain. Some thoughts may be correct, others may be incorrect.
--- so, by that it means that RSS is a organisation of incorrect thoughts??
__________________________________________________ __________
In short, does Sikhism instruct others to believe that no human being can ever match the ten gurus in terms of moral greatness?
-- I told you ... what other talk about... Guru Gobind Singh ji Maharaj has done it...At the open ground of Kesgarh Sahib...!!!
__________________________________________________ __________
You have stated many good things written in holy books.. but unfortunatly .... pandits have never let comman people know about the goodness of hinduism...
__________________________________________________ __________
Nimana
More...